I’m stunned at how many pro-Trump and anti-Obama posts you have. Perhaps you might consider a spiritual practice of some kind to make your life more fulfilling.
Stunned at how many pro-Trump and anti-Obama posts I have? Really? I have many essays where Trump and Obama are not even mentioned at all. I have consistently relegated politics to a secondary plane.
This whole world will pass away. Our souls will live after death, and we will be called to account before the creator of the universe.
Then the focus will be on what we have said and done, not what Trump did, or Obama.
I know nothing about you, except as a human being you have broken God's laws and done things for which you deserve condemnation. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is non righteous, no not one."
You really need to think less about politics and more about the meaning of life.
I studied this article and would like to respond to it point by point. But, before doing so, I am confused by your position and would like to know more about where you are coming from. This will help me to answer more effectively, and prevent misinterpretations of your views.
(1) For example, in Point 4 you deny that people have immortal souls, saying "Immortal soul? No verse teaches this."
If people do not have immortal souls, what do you believe happens after death?
(2) If Christ was not God in the flesh, what was he? Just another human being with unusual spiritual powers?
(3) Do you consider the Bible, in the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired and inerrant Word of God? What about the writings of the apostles? Were they faithfully giving the teachings delivered to them by Christ, through divine inspiration, and are the Bible we now have accurate in their general teachings, apart from translational or textual issues about some specific verses?
(4) Do you believe in the literal, historical truth of the creation account and the fall in Genesis 1-3?
(5) Is there some specific church group that you find to be biblical?
It is easy to criticize other views, but what is your religious belief in general, if Christ is not God in the flesh?
What relationship should we have with Christ, and how can we best live for God in this world? What does it mean to be a Christian?
You had me with ‘Bible believing churches’ then lost me with ‘because Jesus is God’
Serious disconnect there man, the Bible is adamant that Jesus is totally not God.
Oh we can quote lots of verses that are based on conjecture, speculation and simple misreading, but with all those usual ‘proof-texts’ we get unresolved contradiction with everything Jesus said.
it’s like tradition and dogma has blanked the mind so that Christians don’t care what Jesus said.
Perhaps then you should mosey on down to the churches in your tgodblesstheusabible.com own and insist that they get their Biblical "education" using this resource. It has a certain dark resonance with the adoration of Saint Donald as displayed by Franklin Graham at the Inauguration of Orange Jesus.
I didn't answer your question as well as I might have. For one thing, there is a prayer in Nehemiah chapter 9 in which the man of God says he is ashamed to lift up his face to God "for our iniquities are increased over our head, and our trespass is grown up unto the heavens." He says God has punished them less than they deserve, and instead has given them some respite and relief, which describes our situation very well.
Also, instead of getting so deeply into politics, I should have asked you about your own religious views, if you are hostile to Christianity altogether, or only to Christianity as you see it being manifested these days.
I have exactly zero interest in a God Bless the USA Bible, and suspect more likely than not it is probably only a money making gimmick (though there might be some sincere patriotism and religious belief behind it).
As to the adoration of Saint Donald, I have seen no evidence of that, although I did see a video of Trump where he was explaining his executive orders. Many people in the audience were looking at him, I thought, with deep admiration, gratitude and respect - not because he is a saint, but because he is doing his best to end this crazy leftist WOKE nonsense; reaffirming the reality of only two genders; closing the border; beginning an effort to expel criminal elements among illegal aliens; ending the green energy scam and the ridiculous electric vehicle mandates; nullifying the totalitarian leftist threats to the rule of law and our constitutional freedoms from the Biden crime family and the corrupt bureaucracies. These have nothing to do with sainthood, however, and everything to do with common sense, liberty, and the rule of law.
I didn't think Franklin Graham's prayer was so bad. He affirmed our dependence on God for future success, and thanked God for the blessings we as a nation have received. He prayed for God's blessing on Trump - not because Trump is a saint but because it is hoped that his policies will be beneficial to all Americans, including yourself.
But America is still after all a deeply sinful nation, with many serious spiritual problems, and we dare not take any future successes for granted.
I won't be quick to judge electric vehicle as "bad" per se. Albeit mandates are "questionable" at best. In my place there are incentives (in tax etc) AFAIK.
One could say a lot about totalitarianism in Russia, China, and many other places. But I want to focus on Germany as that was the subject that came up in discussions on another thread, and the issue was too complex to be addressed with a few comments.
About Putinism, Russia has a long history of autocratic rulers, going back centuries. To me Putin, is one more in a long line of authoritarian rulers - although of course he lives in our own time, which makes him more relevant. You could write a post on it, I will be glad to read it.
I thought the article you linked to was hopelessly wrong, and showed a profound misunderstanding of American politics.
Trump's hatred and strife? All of his negative comments that I heard were well-deserved and sober statements of fact. What do the authors of that article think of the consistent, sustained and frequent use by Biden and the Democrats of such terms as "Nazi . . . fascist . . . racist . . . garbage" to describe their opponents?
The Democrats have deliberately sown division and race and class hatred for years as a deliberate tactic to get and maintain power.
And Biden's pardoning his family because he was afraid Trump would come after them? Never mind that fact that they were in danger of legitimate criminal prosecution because of their blatant, obvious and proven criminality.
I think the two grumpy Ukrainians are blindly defending Biden and attacking Trump, or maybe even knowing what they are saying is not true, because Biden gave Zelensky lots of money while Trump is demanding that the war stop. If that is the case, their whole analysis is nothing but propaganda and lies.
That people might have legitimate concerns about the economy, the border, an out of control justice system, a federal bureaucracy that cares nothing for the concerns of ordinary Americans; Biden using the executive power of the White House to push the sick and evil transgender agenda, and crazy and senseless EV mandates - people have good reason to prefer Trump to Biden.
Albeit the one who can stop the war is... Putin, by withdrawing his forces Back to 1991 Border. (Sorry - will never agree of his reasoning of ethnic russian rights)
Putin could stop the war, but so could Zelensky. I don't claim to be an expert on this, but I have read, and it seemed credible to me, that the Russians and the Ukrainians were close to an agreement but the British and the Americans sabotaged it as they wanted the war to continue.
Has anyone ever asked the Ukrainian people what they wanted? A state with a lot of local autonomy, where they could live ordinary lives as they did before the war, with the Ukraine under the thumb of Russia diplomatically and militarily? Or a state fighting for its freedom with many dead, much of the country in ruins, and no real prospect of victory?
I suspect many of them would have opted for the status quo ante, and the Western powers want this war for their own geopolitical reasons.
I do not believe the Ukraine is our business or our problem.
There were revolts in Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968, and the West did not get involved.
I do not see Putin as another Hitler who must be stopped because he is thirsting to attack Belgium and Holland next. I think the West has no business meddling in the Ukraine and if we had stayed out there would have been no war, and the entire world would have been better off.
But, I learned a long time ago what I think doesn't matter on the international stage. It does seem rather ludicrous that Biden made so much noise about Ukrainian democracy while he was diligently undermining democracy here at home.
My basic rule of thumb is that everything Biden did was wrong from A to Z.
Please stop the "both sides guilty" by the way, as you know this war started in 2014, and "autonomy" you referred to, especially donbas area was, before the end of Yanukovych, not a big thing (and often russian backed).
Funny, it seems that every government on earth has problems. Nowhere is there a paradise. Nowhere is there a country free from crime injustice, corruption and sin.
We read in I John 5 that the whole world lies in wickedness.
I’m really looking forward to your thoughts and essays on these subjects, Joe.
Thanks for being forthright and willing to continue the work, even in the shadow of the world’s massive influence.
You touched on something early in – studying the Christian authors who have large followings – on Substack and that resonated some with me here. In my own time I have often wondered if I should push to find and secure more audience, but I’m reminded of 1 Corinthians 3:6-8 – the increase really isn’t my responsibility. A worker must focus on the work, God handles the rest.
So, amen, brother. Don’t change to be more like them or water down the message.
When someone seeks the truth, it is the Holy Spirit that guides them for nothing of the flesh desires God’s word. I think it safe to say that John the Baptist didn’t buy TV ads. Ha.
As for the essay’s main thrust, amen.
I don’t think there’s much I can add, other than this is the same message I’ve been hammering on over the last 3 or 4 months in my church services. The late RC Sproul wrote an interesting book on the Holiness of God. I read it some 13 or 14 years ago and don’t recall everything, but RC’s main emphasis was we have NO idea what the sheer holiness of God truly is – we can’t fathom it, and we’d die, just as it says in scripture, if we were to look upon God’s face in our flesh.
I don’t think any book can do the subject of God’s sheer Holiness justice.
Suffice to say it irks me greatly when I come across the “God loves me just the way I am” crowd, or the equally disturbing, “God is all about love, love and more love.”
We have dismissed God’s Holiness and justice at our own peril, considering it perhaps somehow unimportant in the great venue of the 'modern' Gospel message. But this is a particularly egregious error, one perhaps promulgated in part by the propensity to conform to shortened attention spans and the craven need for affirmation that our efforts have not gone unrecognized in secular ways.
In any case, the message got watered down; we stopped teaching and in many churches started to ignore the Old Testament and its lasting impressions of an unchanging God upon generations of human life. In place, we’ve marginalized the Gospel into sound bites, single-line T-Shirt ready slogans and stadium placards. The human thirst for knowledge drives the sinful desire to just know the basics – the bare minimum to get by, leaving the rest for someone else to work on.
This is my experience in the workforce as an engineer – few ever see, and fewer still understand the nitty-gritty details and decisions behind many designs. The majority just want it to look good and don’t care if some foundations of the design are sacrificed at the altar of external appearances. And then when it fails spectacularly, they don’t want to hear the part where their poor decisions contributed to the financial losses. They just want it fixed, and why haven’t you fixed it yet?
The world is immersed in this foolish attitude, and in my observation, it is carried over as people walk through the church doors. They bring the same lenses, the same eye-pieces, the same monocles as they wear in the world to the spiritual sanctuary of the church and it simply falls short.
That is what is missing - holiness. For too many people that is theoretical, just Bible verses. Strive for that holiness WITHOUT WHICH NO MAN WILL SEE THE LORD.
"But someone will say, ‘You have faith; I have deeds.’ Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."
I was thrilled to see and hear Franklin Graham at the inauguration. My wife and I donated to his Samaritan's Purse charity to help those in the Blue Ridge.
As more (Iranian) fires ignite and destroy the LA area, we are likely to see a resurgence in Christian faith.
Franklin Graham has attained the gravitas of his father (Billy) and organizations like Samaritan's Purse are likely to replace churches in many instances as Christians seek to find ways to serve YHWH and our fellow humans.
What if Abraham had believed in God, and then said "Leave my home and take off to who knows where? No way."
This is why God puts us in the real world, that our faith might be tested and exercised, and that we might look to Christ beyond and outside of ourself.
About Franklin Graham, I read his autobiography a long time ago, I am not sure exactly what he is teaching now and have only heard of Samaritan's Purse.
I believe Billy Graham was greatly used of God to begin with, but he made a number of disturbing compromises towards the end. Perhaps he should have retired earlier. Luther made some very negative comments about Jews in his sickly old age, which did not reflect his main message or his life's work at all.
Yes, I keep in mind that Noah became a bit of a miscreant afterward as well, as did Solomon - Solomon, the world's wisest person ever, and ever to be, went on to do all the dumb stuff he knew he shouldn't anyway.
This is why I've asked my wife to keep some super-glue handy in my old age.. heh
I was never informed of any failings by Billy Graham. The parade of "born again" zombies reeling to the stages always struck me as bizarre and silly. But I miss the alter calls and those few times I actually saw people go to the front for prayer. It was touching.
Franklin's development and conducting of Samaritan's Purse makes me think he is the greatest Christian leader in America right now. I miss the dynamism of Norman Vincent Peale and the theatrics of Robert Schuller; but Franklin Graham is actually helping people (when the government and FEMA choose not to).
I'm not understanding your rhetorical question at the beginning. Are you suggesting that Abram might have told the angel to quit bothering him? I don't think it is possible to apply a 21st century mindset to a man who lived nearly 5,000 years ago.
About Billy Graham, he made a statement later in life that people could be saved by Christ, even if they didn’t know Christ - that is, without conscious faith in Christ. That was in an interview with Robert Schuller. He also allowed theological liberals who denied essential doctrines to participate in his rallies, which many viewed as a mistake. But I do believe he was greatly used before that.
I don’t know how you can have a good opinion of Billy Graham and yet see born again zombies reeling to the stage as bizarre and silly, and then say people going to the front for prayer as touching. How could you tell if they were going to the front for prayer or going to the front to give their lives to Christ?
The new birth is an integral part of the Christian faith, being a reception by faith of the Holy Spirit, even if some people do toss the phrase around too lightly.
I don’t know anything about Franklin Graham’s work with Samaritan’s purse, but his dad was known for financial and moral integrity. Is he a great leader? I have not seen any evidence of that. If he has spoken directly to the great problems facing the church, I have not heard it. Maybe I missed it.
My grandmother liked Robert Schuller, and I watched him on TV with her a couple of times. That was years ago, and my own interest in the Bible was limited. I haven’t read any of his books or watched his shows. I have heard him criticized for lack of doctrinal depth but don’t know about that.
About Norman Vincent Peale, I read his book The Power of Positive Thinking Years ago, it didn’t seem to me to be much of a Christian book, it was more of a humanistic self-help guide as far as I could see. Though some Bible verses were mentioned, there was nothing about sin, salvation and judgment as I recall.
About Abraham, my comment “No way” was contemporary American, but the basic point was a timeless one. Like Jonah, for example. God called him to do something and he didn’t want to do it. What if Abraham had not wanted to leave? He could have gone in faith, against his will, but to refuse altogether would have been a denial of faith. Referring back to James, Abraham showed his faith by his obedience.
Let me clarify my sometimes-disjointed thoughts. I was brought up in a very strict Free Methodist family. The Billy Graham crusades often led my grandmother and mother to frequently give Billy's words a quiet "Amen". I attended a small 150-member congregation and there was always an alter call. I went up on a couple occasions, greatly pleasing my family and the other congregants. But, when we are talking about throngs of people who drove many miles and were already convinced that they were going to Billy Graham's stage for forgiveness and rebirth, I think there was some play-acting and mob mentality at work. Nevertheless, I will always honor Billy Graham.
Speaking of the Greatest Generation, you have obviously never heard Norman Vincent Peale preach. He was a great man of God and many were saved (yes, yes, I know I'm contradicting myself; but that's what's great about being an American).
After studying Maxwell Maltz' PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS and becoming comfortable with meditation, I bought a Nightingale/Conant set including Peale's book and accompanied by six audio cassettes. I received many blessing from that and Dr. Peale recommended going to a quiet place and meditating. His directions were to repeat, "I can do all things through Jesus Christ" over and over. I suspect my lawn mower heard this affirmation a hundred times.
Finally, regarding your very first statement - that is a concept I never heard of before (being a follower of Jesus without knowing it). That subject could be taught in a religious college. As a psychologist, I am of the persuasion (promoted in the seventies) that 90% of our thoughts and actions are directed by our unconscious mind.
You must admit that, outside of the committed and dedicated Christians who hold to the Old Rugged Cross and praise Jesus daily, an awful lot of people faced with the New Testament wonder whether Jesus existed, whether he was the Son of God, and are ambivalent about it all. As an orthodox Jewish pal of mine once said, when pressed by a "Jesus freak" mutual friend about the existence and ministry of Christ, "I wasn't there".
In closing, while I know that much of Schuller's ministry was dedicated to selling nicknacks, I enjoyed his theatrics on the Hour of Power. And I especially liked the programs where he had Dr. Peale preach to the Crystal Cathedral.
It is a shame that the virtuoso Virgil Fox did not live long enough to play the organ in the Crystal Cathedral that was built especially for his use.
Thanks for clarifying your seemingly contradictory remarks about Billy Graham – on the one hand, basically good, with some “play-acting and mob mentality” at his rallies.
But, I am unclear as to what you think about the idea of people being born again by receiving the Holy Spirit, the new birth, described in John 3. I can’t remember where exactly but you made some comments that made me wonder about your views on this.
Obviously, it does us no good to receive forgiveness of sins if we just go off and continue repeating the same sins over and over again. A fundamental part of biblical Christianity is not just forgiveness of sins, but also a renewal of our fallen human mind and nature.
As it says in Romans 12: “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God,” and in Romans 8: “Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
About Norman Vincent Peale, I never heard him preach. I did read The Power of Positive Thinking years ago, and as I remember it there were a few sayings of Christ which fit his general theme, but nothing about sin, the day of judgment, repentance or living for Christ, and nothing about the Bible as the Word of God (and without an inspired and inerrant Bible we do not have Christianity at all, since we have no way of knowing what Christ said or did).
Plus, in various books about modern evangelicalism and Christianity, Peale’s name has never come up as a significant figure.
About many being saved by Peale’s preaching, but that contradicting earlier comments about salvation, I don’t think this explanation is adequate: “yes, yes, I know I'm contradicting myself; but that's what's great about being an American.”
Obviously there was some humor there, and we can contradict ourselves or change our minds on lesser things, but when it comes to the afterlife, the day of judgment, and the eternal destiny of our souls for heaven or for hell, we need nothing less than certain conviction.
About Peale’s directions to meditate and repeat the name of Christ over and over, I have no idea someone could get some temporary sense of peace or uplift from that. But who was Christ, and what did he teach? The only written knowledge we have of this is in the Bible. If the four gospels are not the divinely inspired and inerrant word of God, being true in every respect, then we do not know who Christ was or what he did or what he taught.
If they are the word of God, then we find what he asks and expects of us is much more than just meditating and repeating his name over and over again. This advice confirms my sense that Peale was in no sense an authentically biblical speaker. If the four gospels do not give us a true picture of Christ, then follow your own instincts (I say “if” in the same sense that Paul did when he said “If there is no resurrection from the dead” – not expressing doubt, but just examining logical alternatives).
Christ being the manifestation of God to us, in inerrant, accurate and truthful narratives in the four gospels of his life and teachings, that is where we should look for wisdom, not to merely human authors, who may be helpful in some ways but cannot guide us to eternal life in the world to come.
I understand having come out of a church background can make this much more difficult. One is inoculated as it were by a sort of semi-Christianity that leaves one feeling the answer cannot be there, because it has already been tried and found wanting.
Dull and passive churches are a part of this problem.
About Maxwell Maltz' PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS, I found the book on Amazon and read something about it. No doubt, his merely human wisdom can provide some useful advice about how to achieve our goals and find some peace of mind in a way, but when it comes to forgiveness of sins and other things mentioned on the cover, he cannot provide true insight about the nature of God and what he expects of us.
Jesus teaches that the soul lives after death. There is a resurrection from the dead and we will all stand individually before God to be judged for our lives.
“Straight is the gate and narrow is the way and few there be that find it.”
Unfortunately, in searching for this gate and this narrow way, there are many churches that are best avoided.
I am not talking about going to church every Sunday
I did find a short introduction to Jung in a bookstore the other day, and bought it. So after I have read it I will have a clearer idea of his basic ideas. But, I still have the idea that all humanistic psychology is a distraction and a diversion from higher truth, merely confusing and contradictory human wisdom that leads nowhere.
About the idea that one can be a follower of Christ without knowing it, and be saved through Christ and go to heaven even while following a different religion, that is an attempt to broaden the idea of salvation through Christ alone. It was not a new invention of Graham's.
“Yes,” the reasoning goes, “there is no salvation outside of Christ, but his salvation can extend to good, kind and loving people of other religions, because they have found something of Christ without knowing who he is.”
No doubt that is taught in some religious schools or seminaries, but it does not require a lot of elaboration as something that has zero biblical basis.
About your idea that 90% of our thoughts and actions are directed by our unconscious mind, we often do not know what we do or why we do it. However, when we have external standards of scriptural truth by which to judge our conduct, and when we have the model of Christ against which to measure our thoughts and words, higher degrees of rationality become possible. This is why Paul calls for the “renewal of our minds,” and making our thoughts subject to Christ, so that we are not only the playthings of hidden motives and secret passions. The Holy Spirit and the truths of God can guide us to much higher levels of rationality.
I don’t deny your statement that “outside of the committed and dedicated Christians who hold to the Old Rugged Cross and praise Jesus daily, an awful lot of people faced with the New Testament wonder whether Jesus existed, whether he was the Son of God, and are ambivalent about it all.”
That is obviously the case. As Jesus said, “Strait is the gate and narrow is the way and few there be that find it. But broad is the gate and easy is the way that leads to eternal destruction and many go in by it” [quotation from memory].
“The god of this world hath [has] blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them,” and
“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
The basic, biblical message is, that people are lost and blind and dead in their sins, and cannot believe unless God himself reach out to them. “No man can come to me except the Father draws him,” Christ said.
All are guilty of sin, “there is none righteous, no not one,” and only those who come to God through Christ can be delivered.
That may not strike you favorably, but it is the Christian message. It does not mean just believe in Christ and your sins are forgiven. It also involves and requires a life following Christ.
This is often left out of modern churchianity. Here is amore complete version of what should be the Christian message.
It speaks of rising up to new life in Christ, a putting away of the old man with all of its sins, and finding new levels of spirituality which humanly inspired self-help gurus can’t even dream of.
"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth [sits] on the right hand of God.
"Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
"For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
"For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
"In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
"But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."
Christ makes a lot of demands on us
Finally, about Schuller’s ministry, as far as I can see he had no knowledge at all of these things, but offered a very partial and humanly edited version of Christ that was not really Christ at all.
About Virgil Fox, my brother liked his music, but I never cared for organ music at all, especially as background noise in a church. Some find it worshipful but I don’t.
Some of these ideas may be disagreeable to you, especially as you have heard them before presented in different ways, but the idea of Christianity is not to win friends and influence people, and I wanted to be honest. But only God can make these ideas come alive.
One of my favorite teachings of Christ is “Seek,and you will find. Ask, and it shall be given to you. Knock, and it shall be open unto you.”
So, I encourage to look at these things from a fresh perspective, forgetting all about childhood church experiences or family memories, or good or bad preachers you may have liked or liked or disliked, and focus on Christ himself as he is shown in the four gospels, and later in the teachings of the apostles.
Thanks for your kind ending, I hope that God will bless you in your search for truth and deeper understanding.
I doubt that the wonderful and charismatic minister Norman Vincent Peale wrote his classic book intending it to be a replacement for the Bible or some Profound Truth that only a rabbi on meth could dream up. It is a shame you never got to hear the great man speak.
All I know about Virgil Fox was that he was a virtuoso that made a live album at Bill Graham's Fillmore West and that he provided architectural specs for the Crystal Cathedral so that its sound would be acoustically as close to perfect as possible .
The Free Methodists believe in "back-slidden" Christians that were never really saved but thought they were, once. Buddhism teaches of Samadhi - a moment of realization that the Universe is One. I don't see a difference in the Spirit that leads to these unexpected moments of lucidity. Good is Good.
I’m stunned at how many pro-Trump and anti-Obama posts you have. Perhaps you might consider a spiritual practice of some kind to make your life more fulfilling.
Stunned at how many pro-Trump and anti-Obama posts I have? Really? I have many essays where Trump and Obama are not even mentioned at all. I have consistently relegated politics to a secondary plane.
This whole world will pass away. Our souls will live after death, and we will be called to account before the creator of the universe.
Then the focus will be on what we have said and done, not what Trump did, or Obama.
I know nothing about you, except as a human being you have broken God's laws and done things for which you deserve condemnation. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is non righteous, no not one."
You really need to think less about politics and more about the meaning of life.
https://open.substack.com/pub/dfinster/p/what-jesus-said?r=4bo2uv&utm_medium=ios
I studied this article and would like to respond to it point by point. But, before doing so, I am confused by your position and would like to know more about where you are coming from. This will help me to answer more effectively, and prevent misinterpretations of your views.
(1) For example, in Point 4 you deny that people have immortal souls, saying "Immortal soul? No verse teaches this."
If people do not have immortal souls, what do you believe happens after death?
(2) If Christ was not God in the flesh, what was he? Just another human being with unusual spiritual powers?
(3) Do you consider the Bible, in the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired and inerrant Word of God? What about the writings of the apostles? Were they faithfully giving the teachings delivered to them by Christ, through divine inspiration, and are the Bible we now have accurate in their general teachings, apart from translational or textual issues about some specific verses?
(4) Do you believe in the literal, historical truth of the creation account and the fall in Genesis 1-3?
(5) Is there some specific church group that you find to be biblical?
It is easy to criticize other views, but what is your religious belief in general, if Christ is not God in the flesh?
What relationship should we have with Christ, and how can we best live for God in this world? What does it mean to be a Christian?
You had me with ‘Bible believing churches’ then lost me with ‘because Jesus is God’
Serious disconnect there man, the Bible is adamant that Jesus is totally not God.
Oh we can quote lots of verses that are based on conjecture, speculation and simple misreading, but with all those usual ‘proof-texts’ we get unresolved contradiction with everything Jesus said.
it’s like tradition and dogma has blanked the mind so that Christians don’t care what Jesus said.
Perhaps then you should mosey on down to the churches in your tgodblesstheusabible.com own and insist that they get their Biblical "education" using this resource. It has a certain dark resonance with the adoration of Saint Donald as displayed by Franklin Graham at the Inauguration of Orange Jesus.
http://godblesstheusabible.com
I didn't answer your question as well as I might have. For one thing, there is a prayer in Nehemiah chapter 9 in which the man of God says he is ashamed to lift up his face to God "for our iniquities are increased over our head, and our trespass is grown up unto the heavens." He says God has punished them less than they deserve, and instead has given them some respite and relief, which describes our situation very well.
Also, instead of getting so deeply into politics, I should have asked you about your own religious views, if you are hostile to Christianity altogether, or only to Christianity as you see it being manifested these days.
I have exactly zero interest in a God Bless the USA Bible, and suspect more likely than not it is probably only a money making gimmick (though there might be some sincere patriotism and religious belief behind it).
As to the adoration of Saint Donald, I have seen no evidence of that, although I did see a video of Trump where he was explaining his executive orders. Many people in the audience were looking at him, I thought, with deep admiration, gratitude and respect - not because he is a saint, but because he is doing his best to end this crazy leftist WOKE nonsense; reaffirming the reality of only two genders; closing the border; beginning an effort to expel criminal elements among illegal aliens; ending the green energy scam and the ridiculous electric vehicle mandates; nullifying the totalitarian leftist threats to the rule of law and our constitutional freedoms from the Biden crime family and the corrupt bureaucracies. These have nothing to do with sainthood, however, and everything to do with common sense, liberty, and the rule of law.
I didn't think Franklin Graham's prayer was so bad. He affirmed our dependence on God for future success, and thanked God for the blessings we as a nation have received. He prayed for God's blessing on Trump - not because Trump is a saint but because it is hoped that his policies will be beneficial to all Americans, including yourself.
But America is still after all a deeply sinful nation, with many serious spiritual problems, and we dare not take any future successes for granted.
I won't be quick to judge electric vehicle as "bad" per se. Albeit mandates are "questionable" at best. In my place there are incentives (in tax etc) AFAIK.
I have no objection to electric vehicles per se, it is the mandate I object to.
You say mandates are questionable at best - and what are they at worst?
At worst, consumer right violation.
I would say at worst, loss of liberty due to arbitrary executive decisions based on nothing more than the President's will.
The last thing - do not let your dislike of your government let you to endorse agenda from other countries that want you dead.
Also for national socialism, you also should take direct jab at putinism.
One could say a lot about totalitarianism in Russia, China, and many other places. But I want to focus on Germany as that was the subject that came up in discussions on another thread, and the issue was too complex to be addressed with a few comments.
About Putinism, Russia has a long history of autocratic rulers, going back centuries. To me Putin, is one more in a long line of authoritarian rulers - although of course he lives in our own time, which makes him more relevant. You could write a post on it, I will be glad to read it.
In the meantime (to let you know about views from the other side)
https://substack.com/@twogrumpyoldmenonukraine/note/c-87931664?r=3n4un9
I thought the article you linked to was hopelessly wrong, and showed a profound misunderstanding of American politics.
Trump's hatred and strife? All of his negative comments that I heard were well-deserved and sober statements of fact. What do the authors of that article think of the consistent, sustained and frequent use by Biden and the Democrats of such terms as "Nazi . . . fascist . . . racist . . . garbage" to describe their opponents?
The Democrats have deliberately sown division and race and class hatred for years as a deliberate tactic to get and maintain power.
And Biden's pardoning his family because he was afraid Trump would come after them? Never mind that fact that they were in danger of legitimate criminal prosecution because of their blatant, obvious and proven criminality.
I think the two grumpy Ukrainians are blindly defending Biden and attacking Trump, or maybe even knowing what they are saying is not true, because Biden gave Zelensky lots of money while Trump is demanding that the war stop. If that is the case, their whole analysis is nothing but propaganda and lies.
That people might have legitimate concerns about the economy, the border, an out of control justice system, a federal bureaucracy that cares nothing for the concerns of ordinary Americans; Biden using the executive power of the White House to push the sick and evil transgender agenda, and crazy and senseless EV mandates - people have good reason to prefer Trump to Biden.
Albeit the one who can stop the war is... Putin, by withdrawing his forces Back to 1991 Border. (Sorry - will never agree of his reasoning of ethnic russian rights)
Putin could stop the war, but so could Zelensky. I don't claim to be an expert on this, but I have read, and it seemed credible to me, that the Russians and the Ukrainians were close to an agreement but the British and the Americans sabotaged it as they wanted the war to continue.
Has anyone ever asked the Ukrainian people what they wanted? A state with a lot of local autonomy, where they could live ordinary lives as they did before the war, with the Ukraine under the thumb of Russia diplomatically and militarily? Or a state fighting for its freedom with many dead, much of the country in ruins, and no real prospect of victory?
I suspect many of them would have opted for the status quo ante, and the Western powers want this war for their own geopolitical reasons.
I do not believe the Ukraine is our business or our problem.
There were revolts in Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968, and the West did not get involved.
I do not see Putin as another Hitler who must be stopped because he is thirsting to attack Belgium and Holland next. I think the West has no business meddling in the Ukraine and if we had stayed out there would have been no war, and the entire world would have been better off.
But, I learned a long time ago what I think doesn't matter on the international stage. It does seem rather ludicrous that Biden made so much noise about Ukrainian democracy while he was diligently undermining democracy here at home.
My basic rule of thumb is that everything Biden did was wrong from A to Z.
Please stop the "both sides guilty" by the way, as you know this war started in 2014, and "autonomy" you referred to, especially donbas area was, before the end of Yanukovych, not a big thing (and often russian backed).
In other countries you have government screwups in stuff like economic policy
Funny, it seems that every government on earth has problems. Nowhere is there a paradise. Nowhere is there a country free from crime injustice, corruption and sin.
We read in I John 5 that the whole world lies in wickedness.
I’m really looking forward to your thoughts and essays on these subjects, Joe.
Thanks for being forthright and willing to continue the work, even in the shadow of the world’s massive influence.
You touched on something early in – studying the Christian authors who have large followings – on Substack and that resonated some with me here. In my own time I have often wondered if I should push to find and secure more audience, but I’m reminded of 1 Corinthians 3:6-8 – the increase really isn’t my responsibility. A worker must focus on the work, God handles the rest.
So, amen, brother. Don’t change to be more like them or water down the message.
When someone seeks the truth, it is the Holy Spirit that guides them for nothing of the flesh desires God’s word. I think it safe to say that John the Baptist didn’t buy TV ads. Ha.
As for the essay’s main thrust, amen.
I don’t think there’s much I can add, other than this is the same message I’ve been hammering on over the last 3 or 4 months in my church services. The late RC Sproul wrote an interesting book on the Holiness of God. I read it some 13 or 14 years ago and don’t recall everything, but RC’s main emphasis was we have NO idea what the sheer holiness of God truly is – we can’t fathom it, and we’d die, just as it says in scripture, if we were to look upon God’s face in our flesh.
I don’t think any book can do the subject of God’s sheer Holiness justice.
Suffice to say it irks me greatly when I come across the “God loves me just the way I am” crowd, or the equally disturbing, “God is all about love, love and more love.”
We have dismissed God’s Holiness and justice at our own peril, considering it perhaps somehow unimportant in the great venue of the 'modern' Gospel message. But this is a particularly egregious error, one perhaps promulgated in part by the propensity to conform to shortened attention spans and the craven need for affirmation that our efforts have not gone unrecognized in secular ways.
In any case, the message got watered down; we stopped teaching and in many churches started to ignore the Old Testament and its lasting impressions of an unchanging God upon generations of human life. In place, we’ve marginalized the Gospel into sound bites, single-line T-Shirt ready slogans and stadium placards. The human thirst for knowledge drives the sinful desire to just know the basics – the bare minimum to get by, leaving the rest for someone else to work on.
This is my experience in the workforce as an engineer – few ever see, and fewer still understand the nitty-gritty details and decisions behind many designs. The majority just want it to look good and don’t care if some foundations of the design are sacrificed at the altar of external appearances. And then when it fails spectacularly, they don’t want to hear the part where their poor decisions contributed to the financial losses. They just want it fixed, and why haven’t you fixed it yet?
The world is immersed in this foolish attitude, and in my observation, it is carried over as people walk through the church doors. They bring the same lenses, the same eye-pieces, the same monocles as they wear in the world to the spiritual sanctuary of the church and it simply falls short.
Well said Joe. Many good points.
A summary statement could read something like: We have ignored the holiness of God and therefore have no fear of God and the results are obvious.
That is what is missing - holiness. For too many people that is theoretical, just Bible verses. Strive for that holiness WITHOUT WHICH NO MAN WILL SEE THE LORD.
James 2:18:
"But someone will say, ‘You have faith; I have deeds.’ Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."
I was thrilled to see and hear Franklin Graham at the inauguration. My wife and I donated to his Samaritan's Purse charity to help those in the Blue Ridge.
As more (Iranian) fires ignite and destroy the LA area, we are likely to see a resurgence in Christian faith.
Franklin Graham has attained the gravitas of his father (Billy) and organizations like Samaritan's Purse are likely to replace churches in many instances as Christians seek to find ways to serve YHWH and our fellow humans.
What if Abraham had believed in God, and then said "Leave my home and take off to who knows where? No way."
This is why God puts us in the real world, that our faith might be tested and exercised, and that we might look to Christ beyond and outside of ourself.
About Franklin Graham, I read his autobiography a long time ago, I am not sure exactly what he is teaching now and have only heard of Samaritan's Purse.
I believe Billy Graham was greatly used of God to begin with, but he made a number of disturbing compromises towards the end. Perhaps he should have retired earlier. Luther made some very negative comments about Jews in his sickly old age, which did not reflect his main message or his life's work at all.
Yes, I keep in mind that Noah became a bit of a miscreant afterward as well, as did Solomon - Solomon, the world's wisest person ever, and ever to be, went on to do all the dumb stuff he knew he shouldn't anyway.
This is why I've asked my wife to keep some super-glue handy in my old age.. heh
The heart is deceitful and wicked.
I was never informed of any failings by Billy Graham. The parade of "born again" zombies reeling to the stages always struck me as bizarre and silly. But I miss the alter calls and those few times I actually saw people go to the front for prayer. It was touching.
Franklin's development and conducting of Samaritan's Purse makes me think he is the greatest Christian leader in America right now. I miss the dynamism of Norman Vincent Peale and the theatrics of Robert Schuller; but Franklin Graham is actually helping people (when the government and FEMA choose not to).
I'm not understanding your rhetorical question at the beginning. Are you suggesting that Abram might have told the angel to quit bothering him? I don't think it is possible to apply a 21st century mindset to a man who lived nearly 5,000 years ago.
About Billy Graham, he made a statement later in life that people could be saved by Christ, even if they didn’t know Christ - that is, without conscious faith in Christ. That was in an interview with Robert Schuller. He also allowed theological liberals who denied essential doctrines to participate in his rallies, which many viewed as a mistake. But I do believe he was greatly used before that.
I don’t know how you can have a good opinion of Billy Graham and yet see born again zombies reeling to the stage as bizarre and silly, and then say people going to the front for prayer as touching. How could you tell if they were going to the front for prayer or going to the front to give their lives to Christ?
The new birth is an integral part of the Christian faith, being a reception by faith of the Holy Spirit, even if some people do toss the phrase around too lightly.
I don’t know anything about Franklin Graham’s work with Samaritan’s purse, but his dad was known for financial and moral integrity. Is he a great leader? I have not seen any evidence of that. If he has spoken directly to the great problems facing the church, I have not heard it. Maybe I missed it.
My grandmother liked Robert Schuller, and I watched him on TV with her a couple of times. That was years ago, and my own interest in the Bible was limited. I haven’t read any of his books or watched his shows. I have heard him criticized for lack of doctrinal depth but don’t know about that.
About Norman Vincent Peale, I read his book The Power of Positive Thinking Years ago, it didn’t seem to me to be much of a Christian book, it was more of a humanistic self-help guide as far as I could see. Though some Bible verses were mentioned, there was nothing about sin, salvation and judgment as I recall.
About Abraham, my comment “No way” was contemporary American, but the basic point was a timeless one. Like Jonah, for example. God called him to do something and he didn’t want to do it. What if Abraham had not wanted to leave? He could have gone in faith, against his will, but to refuse altogether would have been a denial of faith. Referring back to James, Abraham showed his faith by his obedience.
Let me clarify my sometimes-disjointed thoughts. I was brought up in a very strict Free Methodist family. The Billy Graham crusades often led my grandmother and mother to frequently give Billy's words a quiet "Amen". I attended a small 150-member congregation and there was always an alter call. I went up on a couple occasions, greatly pleasing my family and the other congregants. But, when we are talking about throngs of people who drove many miles and were already convinced that they were going to Billy Graham's stage for forgiveness and rebirth, I think there was some play-acting and mob mentality at work. Nevertheless, I will always honor Billy Graham.
Speaking of the Greatest Generation, you have obviously never heard Norman Vincent Peale preach. He was a great man of God and many were saved (yes, yes, I know I'm contradicting myself; but that's what's great about being an American).
After studying Maxwell Maltz' PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS and becoming comfortable with meditation, I bought a Nightingale/Conant set including Peale's book and accompanied by six audio cassettes. I received many blessing from that and Dr. Peale recommended going to a quiet place and meditating. His directions were to repeat, "I can do all things through Jesus Christ" over and over. I suspect my lawn mower heard this affirmation a hundred times.
Finally, regarding your very first statement - that is a concept I never heard of before (being a follower of Jesus without knowing it). That subject could be taught in a religious college. As a psychologist, I am of the persuasion (promoted in the seventies) that 90% of our thoughts and actions are directed by our unconscious mind.
You must admit that, outside of the committed and dedicated Christians who hold to the Old Rugged Cross and praise Jesus daily, an awful lot of people faced with the New Testament wonder whether Jesus existed, whether he was the Son of God, and are ambivalent about it all. As an orthodox Jewish pal of mine once said, when pressed by a "Jesus freak" mutual friend about the existence and ministry of Christ, "I wasn't there".
In closing, while I know that much of Schuller's ministry was dedicated to selling nicknacks, I enjoyed his theatrics on the Hour of Power. And I especially liked the programs where he had Dr. Peale preach to the Crystal Cathedral.
It is a shame that the virtuoso Virgil Fox did not live long enough to play the organ in the Crystal Cathedral that was built especially for his use.
All that being said, God bless you Joe.
Thanks for clarifying your seemingly contradictory remarks about Billy Graham – on the one hand, basically good, with some “play-acting and mob mentality” at his rallies.
But, I am unclear as to what you think about the idea of people being born again by receiving the Holy Spirit, the new birth, described in John 3. I can’t remember where exactly but you made some comments that made me wonder about your views on this.
Obviously, it does us no good to receive forgiveness of sins if we just go off and continue repeating the same sins over and over again. A fundamental part of biblical Christianity is not just forgiveness of sins, but also a renewal of our fallen human mind and nature.
As it says in Romans 12: “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God,” and in Romans 8: “Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
About Norman Vincent Peale, I never heard him preach. I did read The Power of Positive Thinking years ago, and as I remember it there were a few sayings of Christ which fit his general theme, but nothing about sin, the day of judgment, repentance or living for Christ, and nothing about the Bible as the Word of God (and without an inspired and inerrant Bible we do not have Christianity at all, since we have no way of knowing what Christ said or did).
Plus, in various books about modern evangelicalism and Christianity, Peale’s name has never come up as a significant figure.
About many being saved by Peale’s preaching, but that contradicting earlier comments about salvation, I don’t think this explanation is adequate: “yes, yes, I know I'm contradicting myself; but that's what's great about being an American.”
Obviously there was some humor there, and we can contradict ourselves or change our minds on lesser things, but when it comes to the afterlife, the day of judgment, and the eternal destiny of our souls for heaven or for hell, we need nothing less than certain conviction.
About Peale’s directions to meditate and repeat the name of Christ over and over, I have no idea someone could get some temporary sense of peace or uplift from that. But who was Christ, and what did he teach? The only written knowledge we have of this is in the Bible. If the four gospels are not the divinely inspired and inerrant word of God, being true in every respect, then we do not know who Christ was or what he did or what he taught.
If they are the word of God, then we find what he asks and expects of us is much more than just meditating and repeating his name over and over again. This advice confirms my sense that Peale was in no sense an authentically biblical speaker. If the four gospels do not give us a true picture of Christ, then follow your own instincts (I say “if” in the same sense that Paul did when he said “If there is no resurrection from the dead” – not expressing doubt, but just examining logical alternatives).
Christ being the manifestation of God to us, in inerrant, accurate and truthful narratives in the four gospels of his life and teachings, that is where we should look for wisdom, not to merely human authors, who may be helpful in some ways but cannot guide us to eternal life in the world to come.
I understand having come out of a church background can make this much more difficult. One is inoculated as it were by a sort of semi-Christianity that leaves one feeling the answer cannot be there, because it has already been tried and found wanting.
Dull and passive churches are a part of this problem.
About Maxwell Maltz' PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS, I found the book on Amazon and read something about it. No doubt, his merely human wisdom can provide some useful advice about how to achieve our goals and find some peace of mind in a way, but when it comes to forgiveness of sins and other things mentioned on the cover, he cannot provide true insight about the nature of God and what he expects of us.
Jesus teaches that the soul lives after death. There is a resurrection from the dead and we will all stand individually before God to be judged for our lives.
“Straight is the gate and narrow is the way and few there be that find it.”
Unfortunately, in searching for this gate and this narrow way, there are many churches that are best avoided.
I am not talking about going to church every Sunday
I did find a short introduction to Jung in a bookstore the other day, and bought it. So after I have read it I will have a clearer idea of his basic ideas. But, I still have the idea that all humanistic psychology is a distraction and a diversion from higher truth, merely confusing and contradictory human wisdom that leads nowhere.
About the idea that one can be a follower of Christ without knowing it, and be saved through Christ and go to heaven even while following a different religion, that is an attempt to broaden the idea of salvation through Christ alone. It was not a new invention of Graham's.
“Yes,” the reasoning goes, “there is no salvation outside of Christ, but his salvation can extend to good, kind and loving people of other religions, because they have found something of Christ without knowing who he is.”
No doubt that is taught in some religious schools or seminaries, but it does not require a lot of elaboration as something that has zero biblical basis.
About your idea that 90% of our thoughts and actions are directed by our unconscious mind, we often do not know what we do or why we do it. However, when we have external standards of scriptural truth by which to judge our conduct, and when we have the model of Christ against which to measure our thoughts and words, higher degrees of rationality become possible. This is why Paul calls for the “renewal of our minds,” and making our thoughts subject to Christ, so that we are not only the playthings of hidden motives and secret passions. The Holy Spirit and the truths of God can guide us to much higher levels of rationality.
I don’t deny your statement that “outside of the committed and dedicated Christians who hold to the Old Rugged Cross and praise Jesus daily, an awful lot of people faced with the New Testament wonder whether Jesus existed, whether he was the Son of God, and are ambivalent about it all.”
That is obviously the case. As Jesus said, “Strait is the gate and narrow is the way and few there be that find it. But broad is the gate and easy is the way that leads to eternal destruction and many go in by it” [quotation from memory].
“The god of this world hath [has] blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them,” and
“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
The basic, biblical message is, that people are lost and blind and dead in their sins, and cannot believe unless God himself reach out to them. “No man can come to me except the Father draws him,” Christ said.
All are guilty of sin, “there is none righteous, no not one,” and only those who come to God through Christ can be delivered.
That may not strike you favorably, but it is the Christian message. It does not mean just believe in Christ and your sins are forgiven. It also involves and requires a life following Christ.
This is often left out of modern churchianity. Here is amore complete version of what should be the Christian message.
It speaks of rising up to new life in Christ, a putting away of the old man with all of its sins, and finding new levels of spirituality which humanly inspired self-help gurus can’t even dream of.
"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth [sits] on the right hand of God.
"Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
"For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
"For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
"In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
"But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."
Christ makes a lot of demands on us
Finally, about Schuller’s ministry, as far as I can see he had no knowledge at all of these things, but offered a very partial and humanly edited version of Christ that was not really Christ at all.
About Virgil Fox, my brother liked his music, but I never cared for organ music at all, especially as background noise in a church. Some find it worshipful but I don’t.
Some of these ideas may be disagreeable to you, especially as you have heard them before presented in different ways, but the idea of Christianity is not to win friends and influence people, and I wanted to be honest. But only God can make these ideas come alive.
One of my favorite teachings of Christ is “Seek,and you will find. Ask, and it shall be given to you. Knock, and it shall be open unto you.”
So, I encourage to look at these things from a fresh perspective, forgetting all about childhood church experiences or family memories, or good or bad preachers you may have liked or liked or disliked, and focus on Christ himself as he is shown in the four gospels, and later in the teachings of the apostles.
Thanks for your kind ending, I hope that God will bless you in your search for truth and deeper understanding.
I doubt that the wonderful and charismatic minister Norman Vincent Peale wrote his classic book intending it to be a replacement for the Bible or some Profound Truth that only a rabbi on meth could dream up. It is a shame you never got to hear the great man speak.
All I know about Virgil Fox was that he was a virtuoso that made a live album at Bill Graham's Fillmore West and that he provided architectural specs for the Crystal Cathedral so that its sound would be acoustically as close to perfect as possible .
The Free Methodists believe in "back-slidden" Christians that were never really saved but thought they were, once. Buddhism teaches of Samadhi - a moment of realization that the Universe is One. I don't see a difference in the Spirit that leads to these unexpected moments of lucidity. Good is Good.