That's human nature - no matter how good the plan is human nature is sure to interfere. But I still have to wonder how much Christian influence was involved. No doubt some Christians did support it, but I suspect much of the original impetus was from socialists, who objected to the capitalist system and thought they could use the government as an agent of social change. But, I haven't researched it.
I think the classical philosophers of Greece and Rome are in a different category entirely. They did not have revelation and asked a lot of good questions. It may even be that God provided them as examples of what the human mind can do at its best, and for intellectual exercise, though the least real Christian knows mysteries they could never dream of.
But the modern philosophers have had the truth revealed to them and rejected it, and then wandered off in darkness. There may be some benefit in reading about them, especially in general overviews in histories of philosophy. Many people do follow those false teachers, so a small amount of exposure to them may give us a better feeling for the issues of our age. But studying them in depth and taking them too seriously is spiritually harmful in my view.
Here are a couple of Christian histories of philosophy that I found very interesting, comparing and contrasting what I read with Scripture
Colin Brown Philosophy and the Christian Faith
C. Stephen Evans A History of Western Philosophy: From the Pre-Socratics to Postmodernism
Not for everyone, but can be edifying for some.
Francis Schaeffer's He Is There and He Is Not Silent is directly biblical philosophy, explaining the necessity of the Trinity and the inadequacy of secular alternatives (a short and readable book, not a lot of heavy theology).
Praise Jesus & give me that old time religion. How I miss Tennessee Ernie Ford and the Hymns of Charles Wesley.
But give Nietzsche his due. Although his philosophy may have led to Hitler's rise, he also spoke to Christians when he said, “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." We must be careful to always look to God. Thanks for the great post, Joe.
I never cared for Tennessee Ernie Ford much, but really like some of the Wesley hymns. They had deep contents such as no one is writing today that I know of.
About giving Nietzsche his due, I have read a sympathetic in some ways even admiring biography of Nietzsche by Hollingdale. He documented that Nietzsche had mental problems long before his final breakdown into complete insanity, and was in many ways a very lonely, unhappy and confused individual (my words, not Hollingdale’s).
At the end of The Antichrist Nietzsche is practically foaming at the mouth in his hatred of Christianity. He was a sick man and an evil man, and I don’t think the Nazis took Nietzsche out of context. I think they understood him very well and put his reevaluation of all values into practice.
As is evident from the mental health of physicists and chess masters, the line between genius and insanity is a thin one. Though I am no expert on Nietzsche, I'm pretty sure his beliefs were modeled after Jung.
I worked with a cynical man who used to joke about Peace Corps volunteers who would travel to the most primitive area on the planet and dig a well. Of course, the access to fresh water would excite the natives, lead to rampage sex and reproduction and the end result is worse than if no one had intervened. Nietzsche, while he's most famous for his search for the Uber Mensch, believed in the concept of Darwinism. The successful succeed and the unsuccessful do not.
I have heard of failed western interventions in Third World countries.
Nietzsche was a very foolish man with a lot of crazy ideas. Someone has asked if his mental illness was attributable not only to his physical ailments (including syphilis, which I believe is now accepted as a fact) but also to his philosophy.
Successful and unsuccessful? What do those mean? Christ said "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?" He also told a parable of a rich man who died and went to hell and a poor beggar who died and went to heaven.
I don't think the Nazis took Nietzsche out of context. I think they understood him very well, much better than some modern academics who try to paper over the reality of Nietzsche's new morality.
I do not deny that Nietzsche went insane. That does not negate his VALID theory that Christianity spreads poverty, greed, and a lack of common sense. When we give to those who will not work, we foul the pool of humanity. In the real world, with real consequences, those barnacles on the ship of society will eventually degrade society to the point where it is impossible to save. We are seeing this every day. It is called natural law.
While I appreciate your acknowledgement that America should not have been involved in the destruction of Libya, it also destroyed Yugoslavia and started WW III in Ukraine.
That's human nature - no matter how good the plan is human nature is sure to interfere. But I still have to wonder how much Christian influence was involved. No doubt some Christians did support it, but I suspect much of the original impetus was from socialists, who objected to the capitalist system and thought they could use the government as an agent of social change. But, I haven't researched it.
Your assessment of those philosophers is right on!
I think the classical philosophers of Greece and Rome are in a different category entirely. They did not have revelation and asked a lot of good questions. It may even be that God provided them as examples of what the human mind can do at its best, and for intellectual exercise, though the least real Christian knows mysteries they could never dream of.
But the modern philosophers have had the truth revealed to them and rejected it, and then wandered off in darkness. There may be some benefit in reading about them, especially in general overviews in histories of philosophy. Many people do follow those false teachers, so a small amount of exposure to them may give us a better feeling for the issues of our age. But studying them in depth and taking them too seriously is spiritually harmful in my view.
Here are a couple of Christian histories of philosophy that I found very interesting, comparing and contrasting what I read with Scripture
Colin Brown Philosophy and the Christian Faith
C. Stephen Evans A History of Western Philosophy: From the Pre-Socratics to Postmodernism
Not for everyone, but can be edifying for some.
Francis Schaeffer's He Is There and He Is Not Silent is directly biblical philosophy, explaining the necessity of the Trinity and the inadequacy of secular alternatives (a short and readable book, not a lot of heavy theology).
Praise Jesus & give me that old time religion. How I miss Tennessee Ernie Ford and the Hymns of Charles Wesley.
But give Nietzsche his due. Although his philosophy may have led to Hitler's rise, he also spoke to Christians when he said, “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." We must be careful to always look to God. Thanks for the great post, Joe.
I never cared for Tennessee Ernie Ford much, but really like some of the Wesley hymns. They had deep contents such as no one is writing today that I know of.
About giving Nietzsche his due, I have read a sympathetic in some ways even admiring biography of Nietzsche by Hollingdale. He documented that Nietzsche had mental problems long before his final breakdown into complete insanity, and was in many ways a very lonely, unhappy and confused individual (my words, not Hollingdale’s).
At the end of The Antichrist Nietzsche is practically foaming at the mouth in his hatred of Christianity. He was a sick man and an evil man, and I don’t think the Nazis took Nietzsche out of context. I think they understood him very well and put his reevaluation of all values into practice.
As is evident from the mental health of physicists and chess masters, the line between genius and insanity is a thin one. Though I am no expert on Nietzsche, I'm pretty sure his beliefs were modeled after Jung.
Nietzsche (1844-1900) preceded Jung (1875-1961). I have read little by or about Jung.
Did you know that in The Antichrist Nietzsche called for the extermination of the weak and the unfit?
"The weak and the botched shall perish: first principle of our charity. And one should help them to it.
What is more harmful than any vice?—Practical sympathy for the botched and the weak—Christianity...." (Section 2) https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19322/19322-h/19322-h.htm
I haven't forgotten your other comments and hope to get to them this week.
I worked with a cynical man who used to joke about Peace Corps volunteers who would travel to the most primitive area on the planet and dig a well. Of course, the access to fresh water would excite the natives, lead to rampage sex and reproduction and the end result is worse than if no one had intervened. Nietzsche, while he's most famous for his search for the Uber Mensch, believed in the concept of Darwinism. The successful succeed and the unsuccessful do not.
I have heard of failed western interventions in Third World countries.
Nietzsche was a very foolish man with a lot of crazy ideas. Someone has asked if his mental illness was attributable not only to his physical ailments (including syphilis, which I believe is now accepted as a fact) but also to his philosophy.
Successful and unsuccessful? What do those mean? Christ said "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?" He also told a parable of a rich man who died and went to hell and a poor beggar who died and went to heaven.
I don't think the Nazis took Nietzsche out of context. I think they understood him very well, much better than some modern academics who try to paper over the reality of Nietzsche's new morality.
I do not deny that Nietzsche went insane. That does not negate his VALID theory that Christianity spreads poverty, greed, and a lack of common sense. When we give to those who will not work, we foul the pool of humanity. In the real world, with real consequences, those barnacles on the ship of society will eventually degrade society to the point where it is impossible to save. We are seeing this every day. It is called natural law.
While I appreciate your acknowledgement that America should not have been involved in the destruction of Libya, it also destroyed Yugoslavia and started WW III in Ukraine.